Discussion:
Help on biography details sought... Allen Welsh Dulles' son, Allen Macy Dulles Jr.
(too old to reply)
Néo
2008-07-24 22:53:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I'm looking for publicly available details about
Allen Macy Dulles Jr., son of Allen Welsh Dulles
(which father was also called Allen Macy Dulles).

What I could find so far is quite limited:


(1) Birth
Born 1930 (exact date appreciated)
http://www.pennock.ws/surnames/fam/fam26628.html


(2) Major head wound
He was a Marine Lieutenant.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889642-2,00.html

"wounded and permanently disabled in the Korean
War when a mortar fragment penetrated his brain"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles

"Dulles's son sustained a near-fatal head wound
while serving with the Marines in Korea,
relegating him to supervised care for life."
http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq?id=/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.09.EAD.xml

I'm looking for details about the date of wound,
knowing it has to be between June 1950 and July
1953... If I understand well, the article of the
Time (see first page), titled "Names make news.
Last week these names made this news", is about
events happening roughly one week before Monday,
Feb. 09, 1953, date of its publication. My guess
is, he would have been evacuated very quickly
after having been wounded.

He was "wounded in Korea in 1952" according to:
(HTML version of PDF document on Princeton's
diglib.princeton.edu website:
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:S1TyowLti3IJ:diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq%3Fxsl%3D/ead/xsl/ead2005.pdf%26id%3D/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.EAD.xml%26mime%3D.pdf+%22Allen+Macy+Dulles%22&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=132&gl=fr


(3) Possible death
If he had died some time ago, could this very
information have remained unknown, and if so,
would it imply specific, tragic circumstances?


I'm wondering if he died in 1957, probably in
November or December.


Any help highly appreciated, as biographical
information of any kind, pictures (of him as
well as of his mother Clover Todd Dulles),
whatever... many thanks in advance.
(As well as a picture of Clover Todd Dulles)
--
Néo
I. R. Heller
2008-07-25 16:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Hello there:
The military files ought to have all that information.
Good luck and
be well,
I.R.H.

"N�o" <***@adresski.ru> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:488907e9$0$292$***@news.club-internet.fr...
| Hello,
|
| I'm looking for publicly available details about
| Allen Macy Dulles Jr., son of Allen Welsh Dulles
| (which father was also called Allen Macy Dulles).
|
| What I could find so far is quite limited:
|
|
| (1) Birth
| Born 1930 (exact date appreciated)
| http://www.pennock.ws/surnames/fam/fam26628.html
|
|
| (2) Major head wound
| He was a Marine Lieutenant.
| http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889642-2,00.html
|
| "wounded and permanently disabled in the Korean
| War when a mortar fragment penetrated his brain"
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles
|
| "Dulles's son sustained a near-fatal head wound
| while serving with the Marines in Korea,
| relegating him to supervised care for life."
|
http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq?id=/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.09.EAD.xml
|
| I'm looking for details about the date of wound,
| knowing it has to be between June 1950 and July
| 1953... If I understand well, the article of the
| Time (see first page), titled "Names make news.
| Last week these names made this news", is about
| events happening roughly one week before Monday,
| Feb. 09, 1953, date of its publication. My guess
| is, he would have been evacuated very quickly
| after having been wounded.
|
| He was "wounded in Korea in 1952" according to:
| (HTML version of PDF document on Princeton's
| diglib.princeton.edu website:
|
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:S1TyowLti3IJ:diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq%3Fxsl%3D/ead/xsl/ead2005.pdf%26id%3D/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.EAD.xml%26mime%3D.pdf+%22Allen+Macy+Dulles%22&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=132&gl=fr
|
|
| (3) Possible death
| If he had died some time ago, could this very
| information have remained unknown, and if so,
| would it imply specific, tragic circumstances?
|
|
| I'm wondering if he died in 1957, probably in
| November or December.
|
|
| Any help highly appreciated, as biographical
| information of any kind, pictures (of him as
| well as of his mother Clover Todd Dulles),
| whatever... many thanks in advance.
| (As well as a picture of Clover Todd Dulles)
|
|
| --
| Néo
|
Néo
2008-07-26 10:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by I. R. Heller
The military files ought to have all that information.
Well, I only asked for more open source information. :-)

It's true that the military files could tell more about
the Marines unit of Allen Macy Dulles Jr. in the Korea
war, the exact date and the detailed circumstances of
his wound (like if if it was a case of "friendly fire"
or about whatever other specifics.) It might help.

For now, I've centered on the medical aspects of his
wound in order to determine the validity of my present
clues concerning both the accurate location of the
impact on his skull and its medical consequences.

I have R-V'ed the location of the impact, and it very
well fits with a series of medical consequences that
match my own findings so far, but obviously, knowing
what the medical files say would be a major plus.

A fragment of mortar shell will most probably be both
bigger and heavier than a bullet, but not as fast. My
present guess is that the penetration of the mortar
shell fragment was slowed down by the then standard
(M1) combat helmet that he was wearing, like what can
be seen for instance for US Marines during this was
on:
Loading Image...


Since his condition required supervised care for life
after the drama, I do have doubts about the idea that
Allen Macy Dulles Jr. remained alive up to now - for
more than 50 years after having received his major
head wound. At this stage, finding his grave, with a
date on it, would therefore be a major clue.


At this stage, it would definitely help to know about
any basic legal restrictions about the civil status
information in the USA preventing a layman (not from
the family) from knowing a given person's date of
death and for how long after the event. The "Vital
record" article in Wikipedia is a stub, it merely says
that in the USA, this type of information is handled
at the state level. So one would need to determine
both the relevant U.S. state and the legal disclosure
regulations applicable.


A Princeton University document states that in 1951,
Allen Welsh's legal residence was in the state of New
York.
http://www.princeton.edu/~mudd/finding_aids/adulles/Personal_Information_1951-1960/19510823_0000075080.pdf

During the period that I'm presently examining, from
1952 to, say, 1960, Allen Welsh was deputy director
(1951-1953) of the CIA, then he became not only its
director, but he also was the director of Central
Intelligence (February 26, 1953 to November 29, 1961).
This does give a clue about his place of living, but
does not imply exactly where he was actually living.
For now, I'd say it was "most likely in some place
around Baltimore, Maryland". I expect he exact place
for the time period considered to be is in fact very
well known, albeit not necessarily "publicly" known.


There are only two names carved on the grave of Allen
Welsh Dulles: his own name and the name of his spouse.
One only needs to run a search on www.findagrave.com,
there is a single match for Allen Welsh Dulles with
no other search criteria. The grave is located in the
Green Mount Cemetery, Baltimore.
The picture of the grave can also be found on:
Loading Image...

A search with Allen Macy Dulles as the only search
criteria returns a single entry, but it corresponds
to Allen Welsh's father, who died in 1930 - not to
Allen Macy Dulles Jr.
Post by I. R. Heller
Good luck and
be well,
I.R.H.
Thanks for your kind feed-back.
--
Néo
d***@gmail.com
2015-07-12 18:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Néo
Post by I. R. Heller
The military files ought to have all that information.
Well, I only asked for more open source information. :-)
It's true that the military files could tell more about
the Marines unit of Allen Macy Dulles Jr. in the Korea
war, the exact date and the detailed circumstances of
his wound (like if if it was a case of "friendly fire"
or about whatever other specifics.) It might help.
For now, I've centered on the medical aspects of his
wound in order to determine the validity of my present
clues concerning both the accurate location of the
impact on his skull and its medical consequences.
I have R-V'ed the location of the impact, and it very
well fits with a series of medical consequences that
match my own findings so far, but obviously, knowing
what the medical files say would be a major plus.
A fragment of mortar shell will most probably be both
bigger and heavier than a bullet, but not as fast. My
present guess is that the penetration of the mortar
shell fragment was slowed down by the then standard
(M1) combat helmet that he was wearing, like what can
be seen for instance for US Marines during this was
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Koreanwar1953.jpg
Since his condition required supervised care for life
after the drama, I do have doubts about the idea that
Allen Macy Dulles Jr. remained alive up to now - for
more than 50 years after having received his major
head wound. At this stage, finding his grave, with a
date on it, would therefore be a major clue.
At this stage, it would definitely help to know about
any basic legal restrictions about the civil status
information in the USA preventing a layman (not from
the family) from knowing a given person's date of
death and for how long after the event. The "Vital
record" article in Wikipedia is a stub, it merely says
that in the USA, this type of information is handled
at the state level. So one would need to determine
both the relevant U.S. state and the legal disclosure
regulations applicable.
A Princeton University document states that in 1951,
Allen Welsh's legal residence was in the state of New
York.
http://www.princeton.edu/~mudd/finding_aids/adulles/Personal_Information_1951-1960/19510823_0000075080.pdf
During the period that I'm presently examining, from
1952 to, say, 1960, Allen Welsh was deputy director
(1951-1953) of the CIA, then he became not only its
director, but he also was the director of Central
Intelligence (February 26, 1953 to November 29, 1961).
This does give a clue about his place of living, but
does not imply exactly where he was actually living.
For now, I'd say it was "most likely in some place
around Baltimore, Maryland". I expect he exact place
for the time period considered to be is in fact very
well known, albeit not necessarily "publicly" known.
There are only two names carved on the grave of Allen
Welsh Dulles: his own name and the name of his spouse.
One only needs to run a search on www.findagrave.com,
there is a single match for Allen Welsh Dulles with
no other search criteria. The grave is located in the
Green Mount Cemetery, Baltimore.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/dullesa.jpg
A search with Allen Macy Dulles as the only search
criteria returns a single entry, but it corresponds
to Allen Welsh's father, who died in 1930 - not to
Allen Macy Dulles Jr.
Post by I. R. Heller
Good luck and
be well,
I.R.H.
Thanks for your kind feed-back.
--
Néo
I am not quite sure what I'm doing or if anyone will find this, but Allen Dulles Jr. is still alive.
Einar Kvaran
e***@gmail.com
2016-07-25 15:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Allen Welsh Dulles's son, Allen Macy Dulles II was named for his grandfather Allen Macy Dulles and therefore wasn't "jr.".
b***@gmail.com
2015-11-14 14:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by I. R. Heller
The military files ought to have all that information.
Good luck and
be well,
I.R.H.
| Hello,
|
| I'm looking for publicly available details about
| Allen Macy Dulles Jr., son of Allen Welsh Dulles
| (which father was also called Allen Macy Dulles).
|
|
|
| (1) Birth
| Born 1930 (exact date appreciated)
| http://www.pennock.ws/surnames/fam/fam26628.html
|
|
| (2) Major head wound
| He was a Marine Lieutenant.
| http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889642-2,00.html
|
| "wounded and permanently disabled in the Korean
| War when a mortar fragment penetrated his brain"
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles
|
| "Dulles's son sustained a near-fatal head wound
| while serving with the Marines in Korea,
| relegating him to supervised care for life."
|
http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq?id=/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.09.EAD.xml
|
| I'm looking for details about the date of wound,
| knowing it has to be between June 1950 and July
| 1953... If I understand well, the article of the
| Time (see first page), titled "Names make news.
| Last week these names made this news", is about
| events happening roughly one week before Monday,
| Feb. 09, 1953, date of its publication. My guess
| is, he would have been evacuated very quickly
| after having been wounded.
|
| (HTML version of PDF document on Princeton's
|
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:S1TyowLti3IJ:diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq%3Fxsl%3D/ead/xsl/ead2005.pdf%26id%3D/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.EAD.xml%26mime%3D.pdf+%22Allen+Macy+Dulles%22&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=132&gl=fr
|
|
| (3) Possible death
| If he had died some time ago, could this very
| information have remained unknown, and if so,
| would it imply specific, tragic circumstances?
|
|
| I'm wondering if he died in 1957, probably in
| November or December.
|
|
| Any help highly appreciated, as biographical
| information of any kind, pictures (of him as
| well as of his mother Clover Todd Dulles),
| whatever... many thanks in advance.
| (As well as a picture of Clover Todd Dulles)
|
|
| --
| Néo What a piece of garbage Allen Welsh Dulles and his brother were,Allen was anti Jewish and was instrumental in securing the freedom of many Nazi leaders who knew and were heavily involved in the final solution. They and their fruit company ruined central and south America with their support of right wing idiots like themselves. Thank God they are gone.
|
s***@gmail.com
2020-05-13 11:15:29 UTC
Permalink
...you can snail mail me (his cousin) at
94 Poh Wah Yuen, Yung Shue Wan, Lamma Island, Hong Kong.
Note, he is not "Junior" (that is a mistake ... though he has same name as his paternal grandfather, who died about the time he was born).
. --James Dulles Seymour (Jim)
Post by I. R. Heller
The military files ought to have all that information.
Good luck and
be well,
I.R.H.
| Hello,
|
| I'm looking for publicly available details about
| Allen Macy Dulles Jr., son of Allen Welsh Dulles
| (which father was also called Allen Macy Dulles).
|
|
|
| (1) Birth
| Born 1930 (exact date appreciated)
| http://www.pennock.ws/surnames/fam/fam26628.html
|
|
| (2) Major head wound
| He was a Marine Lieutenant.
| http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889642-2,00.html
|
| "wounded and permanently disabled in the Korean
| War when a mortar fragment penetrated his brain"
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles
|
| "Dulles's son sustained a near-fatal head wound
| while serving with the Marines in Korea,
| relegating him to supervised care for life."
|
http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq?id=/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.09.EAD.xml
|
| I'm looking for details about the date of wound,
| knowing it has to be between June 1950 and July
| 1953... If I understand well, the article of the
| Time (see first page), titled "Names make news.
| Last week these names made this news", is about
| events happening roughly one week before Monday,
| Feb. 09, 1953, date of its publication. My guess
| is, he would have been evacuated very quickly
| after having been wounded.
|
| (HTML version of PDF document on Princeton's
|
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:S1TyowLti3IJ:diglib.princeton.edu/ead/eadGetDoc.xq%3Fxsl%3D/ead/xsl/ead2005.pdf%26id%3D/ead/mudd/publicpolicy/MC019.EAD.xml%26mime%3D.pdf+%22Allen+Macy+Dulles%22&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=132&gl=fr
|
|
| (3) Possible death
| If he had died some time ago, could this very
| information have remained unknown, and if so,
| would it imply specific, tragic circumstances?
|
|
| I'm wondering if he died in 1957, probably in
| November or December.
|
|
| Any help highly appreciated, as biographical
| information of any kind, pictures (of him as
| well as of his mother Clover Todd Dulles),
| whatever... many thanks in advance.
| (As well as a picture of Clover Todd Dulles)
|
|
| --
| Néo
|
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